But… maybe Hexen too?

[TigerQuoll]

#8935

It says it right in its title: “Hexen: Beyond Heretic”.

Don’t get me wrong, I love Heretic. But most people would agree it’s little more than a Doom re-skin. (Apparently John Romero insisted all the guns in Heretic be analogues of the guns from Doom)
Nobody could accuse Hexen of the same.

Hexen was made by the same team using technically the same engine as Heretic, but it is a massive evolution of the formula, and there is so much more about it that is worth discussing.

I’m not sure if Heretic has a scripting engine, but if it does then it is rudimentary or under-utilised.
The scripting engine in Hexen, however, is powerful and comprehensive, and it makes the levels all feel alive and real and interactive.
On that topic, progression is much less linear, with hub levels and lots of exploration, in a way that’s almost like a metroidvania. Levels are interwoven and complex, and the game feels much bigger and more epic as a result.
Hexen is even more atmospheric, and objectively twice as Metal as Heretic.
And if that’s not enough, it even has a class system. In an FPS from 1995.

I know I’ve written about this before, but just to make my case, if we’re going to do Heretic, then I think we should devote at least as much time this month to its sequel as well.
Or we simply do Hexen in October next year, since it’ll actually be its 30th birthday that very month!

[sorceress]

#8950

Is Hexen really a sequel Because there was a Heretic 2 (for Windows only afaik), albeit with quite different presentation.

I feel that the Hexen series is more of a spinoff, rather than a sequel, tbh.

There was also a Hexen 2, which I quite enjoyed too back in the day. The Hexen 2 engine was a bit more advanced too, feeling more like the quake engine, if I were to guess.

I think they should be separate episodes, personally, since each already has it’s own true sequel.

That said I’m quite looking forward to a Heretic episode, after seeing this in the schedule just now 🙂 I think it was I who first suggested it too, back in 2018!

I think I discovered the shareware game on id’s FTP server, after browsing it for doom patches, and I was instantly taken in by it’s gameplay and dark fantasy atmosphere. It was only years later that I bought the full retail version. I still haven’t fully completed it, despite how much I love it! The shareware episode is really the best part.

I’ve recently been playing the Brutal Heretic mod, which adds the same sort of intensity and increased challenge as Brutal Doom, whilst rebalancing the game for use with modern wasd+mouse controls. I’d recommend taking a look at this, if you enjoy the base game.

[Wesbat]

#8951

My first reaction is to say “Yes”.

But after stepping back and taking a moment, I realized my knee-jerk reaction is foolish.

Although it would be great to keep the pair together in one month, I feel the scope of them combined would mean neither will get the time they deserve.

Some factoids:

1) Hexen was developed as “Heretic II”, this is evidenced in the source code where each file header has the line “Heretic 2 : Raven Software, Corp.”

2) In Heretic we have the hero taking on the first of the Serpent Riders, whereas in Hexen the second rider is dealt with – albeit in another dimension, with a different hero.

3) The Heretic engine was based off DooM while adding flying, looking up-down, inventory, translucency and varied monster attack types and drops.

4) Hexen is based off Heretic, while adding character classes, falling damage, fog and a hub-based level design.

5) Hexen introduced the ACS scripting language.

6) The player can move back-and-forth between levels and items/monsters are persisted. Something that Heretic and DooM did not support.

https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Hexen

[Martli]

#8952

I’m totally down to do HeXen in October 2025 to build on Heretic in October 2024. I reckon that would be cool and gives the opportunity for more in-depth episodes.

[TigerQuoll]

#8962

I feel like “is Hexen a sequel to Heretic” is a question that, in lesser online communities, would spiral into one of those bitter, all-encompassing, forever-debates like “Do Balrogs have wings?”, “what colour is the dress?” or “Laurel vs Yanny”.

Yeah, I guess you guys are right – Hexen DOES deserve a month all to itself, without having to share a room with its objectively-worse-in-every-way little brother 😛 (I kid! I kid!)

[red.hexapus]

#8985

I too feel that Hexen should be a separate episode, as in my opinion it is a completely different beast from Heretic.

Personally, I don’t like the linear nature of Heretic (the game feels to me like a fantasy reskin of Doom). On the other hand you have Hexen with great atmosphere, three distinct classes, hub area and lots of puzzles. And that’s something I do like 🙂

[dr_st]

#9002

Hexen is objectively the best original Doom engine game, with all the technical advantages already mentioned here.

Subjectively, though, I found that the hub system with puzzles split across levels made it, at times, too complex.

I support the idea of dedicating an episode to it in the future (indeed maybe for the anniversary next year). It is too big and too different to share with Heretic.

[watchful]

#9059

Either way sounds good to me. Yet both games will probably be a bit squished if done in the same month.

[Mike]

#9064

yeah it should be a separate month. I really like the game but also think the criticisms of the level design are very fair.

[TigerQuoll]

#9069

I think the level design is one of those “one man’s trash, another man’s treasure” things.
The level design is my favourite thing about Hexen, and I wouldn’t change a thing about it, except in maybe the last hub, which I actually find too linear.

It’s the interwoven, rambling nature of the game that I love the most.
I really like games that require you to explore and backtrack and get to learn the levels inside out.
When I get to the end of Hexen, I don’t just feel like I’ve passed it, or I’ve beaten it – I feel like I OWN it!