Final(ish) thoughts

[TigerQuoll]

#9103

I’ve played the shareware episode in the past, maybe twice or three times, including when the game was pretty new. But I only just finished episode 2 and 3 for the first time. I’m really not sure if I want to go ahead and play 4 and 5 – I’m kind of Heretic-ed out now!

Anyway, I found myself enjoying it more than I expected, especially given some of the reviews and things I heard about it. I was fully expecting never ending, samey mazes with protracted fights against baddies that refuse to die.
But I found the levels to be well structured, and easy to navigate, and I honestly didn’t find the enemies too bullet-spongy, apart from maybe the Ophidians (slightly) and the Maulotaurs.
I actually thought, for mini-bosses, the iron liches went down a bit TOO easily!
(Spoiler warning) D’sparil was a pain in the butt though, with his constant teleporting.

That said, I’m not entirely convinced by the design of the new enemies in later episodes. They look a bit samey and under-designed to me. (I’m talking about the sabreclaws, weredragons and the ophidians). The original enemies – gargoyles, golems, undead warriors and disciples, all have really clear designs and silhouettes that later enemies lacked.

I still like episode 1 the best, at least the first 4 or 5 levels. Half the levels in episode 2 are kinda boring – just weird, vague, rocky places with no particular theme, apart from lava and ice.
But they got a bit better as the episode progressed. The levels in episode 3 were consistently pretty good. Except that first level, with precious little ammo and weapons, and heaps of high level enemies is a bit unfair!

Music was decent, but it didn’t stand out to me as much as it did apparently for some people.

Not much to say about the weapons really – they are just rehashes of Doom weapons after all. Although, some of them feel a bit redundant – is there really a meaningful distinction between the firemace and the hellstaff? (Except that, when powered up, it’s almost unusable!)

Yeah, that’s it. I’m glad I stuck with it, but it’s not going in my top ten list any time soon. I might even play it again one day, or even try the other episodes.
But for now I think I’m going to get a head-start on some upcoming games. Methinks I’m going to need more than a month to get throught Ultima Underworld!

[Pix]

#9104

I just finished episode 3 and I’d go along with all of the above. It’s certainly more fun than playing Doom again would have been and does have it’s own character to some extent.

That said, it didn’t exactly blow me away. Dark Forces is so much better as a single player experience. Rise Of The Triad has more character. Descent did something more interesting with the formula. I’m with the Charlie Brooker review I posted at the start of the month. I had some fun with Heretic but I was finding I couldn’t play for too much time without starting to get a bit bored. It’s a decent enough game, it just needed to change things up a bit more for me.

[dr_st]

#9108

Yes, I too can identify almost with everything said. 😀

Before this month, I had a save file on E2M4 from January 2015. The fact that I stopped in the middle of E2 suggest that I must have also felt that it was a bit boring. However, it really was not as bad as I went back to it.

The “bullet-sponginess” of the monsters is due to the relatively low average damage of all the weapons in the game, but it works both ways, because monster projectiles are also not very damaging, even on Smite-Meister difficulty (equivalent of Doom’s Ultra Violence). Even in a blind playthrough, it is quite possible to survive all levels without dying even once. The only times I got killed were – against bosses, when I was tired/bored and played carelessly, and in the infamous E3M1.

The unfairness of the map, which doesn’t give you an Ethereal Crossbow, is well-documented. In some ways it resembles E4M1 of Ultimate Doom. On my second playthrough I had to carefully ration my ammo, use the Gauntlets against Gargoyles whenever possible, plan my route, and even then barely made it. However, towards the middle of E3M2, I was almost fully stocked, and from that moment it was rather routine. Actually I find that I don’t remember the E1 levels, but I definitely liked E3 better than E2. Except the “Iron Lich(es) in every exit room” trope got a bit old towards the end, but, hey, at least in E3M7 you can kill them through the window way in advance.

The fact that you can only carry over one of each artifact (and no Wings of Wrath) into the next level seems arbitrary, but it was a good design decision. Otherwise the game would become too easy as you accumulate health bonuses, tomes of power and whatnot. It also encourages using these artifacts, as you know you cannot transfer them. I do wish there were hotkeys to use the various items without scrolling through the inventory. Duke Nukem 3D figured it out and it makes the game much smoother. You don’t want to be hunting for that morph ovum, chaos device or mystic urn while being overwhelmed by monsters.

I really liked the level design. I agree – most levels have very accessible layouts with clear landmarks to help navigation, and they are not too big. I never felt lost. Another thing I appreciate is how accessible the secrets are. When you have explored most of the level, the shape itself hints at possible locations of secret rooms, and almost always you will find a map scroll at some point which will give them away completely. I have recently seen this exact approach duplicated in the “No Rest for the Living” official Doom expansion.

Likewise, I also wonder if I have the motivation to go through E4 and E5. I’ve heard it said that the monster pressure is higher and overall quality is lower. But I think I shall give it a try now, because otherwise, I probably never will. 😀

[watchful]

#9109

When I played through Heretic a while back, I did play the original campaign and the expansion. It did feel a bit repetitive by the end. Still the art, interesting levels, and coherent–if sparse–story made it worthwhile for me.

Also the MP is fun, even if it sometimes feels too much like a Doom reskin. I wish they had at least made the weapons all projectile based, since hitscan feels especially out of place given the fantasy setting. Perhaps they were concerned with lag from too many projectiles, as things like DWANGO served low-bandwidth dial-up connections.

[TigerQuoll]

#9110

I’ve been casually playing episode 4 with god mode on. Glad I’m doing it with cheats tbh. So many monsters, and the first level feels even more unfair than E3M1!
Not a fan of how many iron liches they’ve put in narrow corridors. Those whirlwind attacks are just a pain in the butt when you’ve got nowhere to run, even with invincibility!

This episode feels fine so far. It doesn’t feel as coherent as the main game, but there also seems to be less reliance on sabreclaws, weredragons and ophidians, which I appreciate.

[Pix]

#9111

I finished episode 4 last night on normal difficulty. I found myself running out of ammo and having to run through enemies, especially in that first level.

The level design gets a bit obnoxious later on with a ton of wandering around trying to find the next thing to do, eventually to find that a key has lowered/appeared but for no clear reason. There are a lot of hidden triggers used in these levels. They’ve clearly made them deliberately harder which makes sense I suppose but they are less fun as a result.

I’m not massively enthusiastic about continuing into episode 5 but now has to be the time to finally play through the whole thing so I’ll keep going.

[dr_st]

#9116

Wow, E4M1 redefines bullsh*t in terms of ammo per monster ratio. On skill level 4 I have no idea how one can have enough ammo there. I probably saved, died and reloaded 40 times in that level, and even then barely scraped through utilizing every trick in the book:

* Trying to lure enemies under the crusher in the central room (doesn’t work well!)
Using the Maulotaur to kill lesser enemies in the western courtyard
* Using the Gauntlets with Tome of Power to melee the Ophidians in the four balconies surrounding the east chamber, while simultaneously replenishing my health
* Flat out ignoring the 4 Iron Liches rising from the pit containing the exit chamber, activating the ring of invulnerability to simply run around, push all the switches and open up the end level teleporter.

Even with this, just getting to that point involved a great deal of luck and retries, e.g., the small southern room where you need to hit the switch to raise stairs while being cornered by Sabreclaws.

In E4M2 I’ve started by just running around, ignoring all enemies outside the castle, until I can lower all 4 teleporters to get the yellow key, and accumulate enough ammo. Then I decimated the lesser enemies, and the Iron Liches, and stayed out of the ways of the two Maulotaurs.

Not going to try 100% any of the levels in this episode, sorry. 😀

[Pix]

#9127

E4M1 was the worst level in the game without a doubt. Things generally get better as E4 goes on but the levels do settle into a pattern where you kind of know what to expect.

Just finished E5 tonight. I actually enjoyed that a bit more in the end. Not sure if that’s because I spread it out over 3 nights, or because I took the approach of using my weak weapons when I could to preserve ammo. It seemed better balanced. There were numerous times when you have to shoot a wall to progress which seems a little cheap but I guess I got there in the end.

The final level couldn’t have been much less inspired. New bosses would have been a nice touch for each episode at the very least. I’d have liked more of an ending after getting through all of those levels but it’s another game off the backlog anyway.

[dr_st]

#9128

Yes, from E4M3 on it is back to the normal pattern of there not really being a challenge, and you just enjoy exploring the levels.

Though I decided to skip the secret level in E4.

[Martli]

#9147

Didn’t get very far through, had big (but ultimately unrealistic) plans to try it out in different forms (pure DOS, GZDoom etc) but was a very busy month for me so didn’t get much gaming time. I did however finish episodes 1-3 about a year ago so here are my hazy thoughts.

Overall I think it’s a cool game if you’ve thrashed DOOM and want something similar. Or alternatively are a bit of a DnD nerd and want a fantasy FPS. I personally like the fantasy setting and (basic) storyline and I REALLY like the music. For those of you that are metal heads some of the tunes remind me of Slayer from their “Show no mercy” days mixed with a bit more of a standard fantasy score. On the one hand I really like the introduction of the inventory, but on the other I feel like DOOM didn’t need it, so maybe heretic didn’t either? As others have said, Duke did it better, but it was still a nice addition.

Level design was good, again I like the setting, particularly the cathedral-type stuff.

Overall I personally like and enjoy this game. I’d recommend it to someone who is already into dos FPSs or likes fantasy, but for someone who is fresh then there’s no going past DOOM. And I guess that’s one of its major downsides is that it will forever live in DOOM’s shadow.

[dr_st]

#9149

Finished E4 and it really was quite OK for the second half. The beginning of the last level is a bit annoying with all the Nitrogolems and the wind, but the final battle against a group of Iron Liches was satisfying.

I might try to tackle E5 after all.

[jefklak]

#9158

Okay so I also finished the game (the original three episodes, that is) and I must say I’m pleasantly surprised. I never got beyond level 1 back in the shareware days when I was 10 or so so I don’t have any immediate nostalgia for the game, and I know it’ll probably always live in DOOM’s shadows, but the music, the level design, and the powered up weapons that at least try to differentiate were great.

I did a quick write-up here: https://jefklakscodex.com/games/pc/heretic/

I tried playing it on my DOS PC but the smooth mouse movement and controls of modern source ports make it hard to revisit the original. Beyond that, the gameplay/levels have aged quite well, I think.

[dr_st]

#9159

Nice review, I liked it. Talking about story not having importance – I didn’t even know the main character was an elf, although of course, his appearance on the title screen hints at that heavily.

Yes, those disciples of D’Sparil are probably the most annoying enemies, due to the combination of their free flight and the rather damaging attack.

Have you ever paid attention to their voices? It is the same reversing trick used for the final boss of Doom II (and countless games since).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pWhz25-TNU

[dr_st]

#9197

I’m going to complete Episode 5 as well. I’m at the start of E5M6 now, which means I have two more levels + the boss level which basically one fight.

E5M1 is another difficult level, but not in an annoying way, because there actually is enough ammo to go around. Bonus points for letting the Maulotaur fall into the lava pool and slowly kill itself. 🤣

I like E5M3 with the secret exit behind that fake wall. You need to be observant and see the Gargoyles emerge from the hidden chamber to spot it.

In E5M9 (secret level) I used that trick to finish the level with Wings of Wrath active + 1 in the inventory, so that you get to start the next level with 1, as it lets you skip most of E5M4. 😆

E5M5 is a bit long and annoying, with some obtuse “puzzles”. My DOSBox froze twice playing it. No idea why.

Update:

I seem to have a problem with DOSBox on this one PC. Lots of games glitch occasionally, but with Heretic it causes a freeze. Oh well.

Anyhow, I struggled with the last two non-boss levels, and I must say the obtuseness of the puzzles kinda continued there. I didn’t like it. Too much random back and forth from place to place, and at least one case where I got stuck for a while because I didn’t figure out I was supposed to shoot a wall.

E5M8 is a walk in the park if you bring ammo and artifacts from the previous level. Even without those, it’s not that hard, as long as you are reasonably accurate with your shots and know how to avoid being cornered.