Wesbat
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WesbatParticipant@sorceress that plays great! The ambushes add suspense and the level has a rather nice flow to it. I still miss some secrets despite having played a few rounds, they are well hidden and adds great encouragement to replay this level 🙂
WesbatParticipantThanks for the detailed notes @sorceress, it’s much better than I could have worded it! I will fix the mentioned bugs, and balance health & ammo for the map as a whole, to address your points.
@Tijn of course I’d be happy to to the final north wing in E1M9, given this is the exit room I will keep it simple.
WesbatParticipantHey @kdrnic,
> Now we need a North Wing that requires all 3 keys to open
I will volunteer if this is still open? 🙂
WesbatParticipant@watchful I played your e1m8 and beat it after a few attempts. It provides a good challenge! Attached is a demo.
WesbatParticipantI have a thing for ancient Egyptian themes. OSIRIS is a TC that plays off the star gate idea. The levels are sprawling and detailed.
I’ve only last week discovered this but think it’s worth mentioning WOLFENDOOM is massive recreation of Wolf3D, the original levels, and also new missions of the author’s own devising. (Note this uses a custom version of Boom, which is provided in “The Original Missions” download and does work in DOS.)
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WesbatParticipantThat is great thanks @watchful! I’ll play some this weekend. I’ve also been pulling late nights at work and missed a few days on your DM server (which is heck of a lot of fun!).
WesbatParticipantOof that’s rough @rnlf. I feel your pain, when an idea doesn’t fit within the limits it’s the worst. Sorry 🙁
@TigerQuoll it’s all good, surely we have a little more time before the episode is recorded, and a few of us can help out if you need. I wouldn’t want to rob you of the experience to finish a map unless you agree; it’s quite gratifying 🙂
WesbatParticipantThanks @watchful. I like how you put the texture in a secret!
Maybe we can focus on collecting all the maps into a pack first? Then add a custom texture when all else is done. Failing textures aside, we should at least have a pack of playable maps ready to go 🙂
Notes: 1) the sample map in DGC.wad is just that, it won’t feature in the final pack. 2) If we choose to use a custom DGC texture, it will be embedded within the final wad; it will be self-contained.
WesbatParticipantJust a demonstration using the DGC computer as a wall texture, and a DGC carpet design.
If you include this WAD as a resource file while editing, the texture DGCTEX and flat DGCFLAT will become available.
Edit: to use the resource during testing list it as an additional parameter “doom.exe -file DGC.WAD yourmap.wad …”
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WesbatParticipant@watchful gosh that certainly is a curious problem you encountered. It had me stumped for a while!
I looked up the static limits for map Coordinates:
> In practical terms, it is safer to keep the map
> boundaries between -16384 and +16383.Moving the sectors of your final boss area to within these coordinates fixes your problem.
@sorceress yes indeed I created the dmon tool 🙂
WesbatParticipantE1M4 looks great @sorceress! I love all the secrets and traps, and it gave a good feel for a base of operations. I recorded a demo on ultra-violence.
“Hurt me Plenty” plays hard though, I can see it frustrating casual players. Sixty percent of the monsters in your map use hitscan (bullet) attacks, which make play harder as the player cannot dodge these attacks. The average in vanilla Doom is 34%
You can leave the difficulty as is for the Hard skill, but for Easy and Medium skills consider changing a third to half of the shotgunners to Imps (or removing them from those skills altogether).
It’s just a suggestion of course. Casual players will carry weapons from previous levels and also have save games, so I dare say you could get away with this difficulty. It may just feel out of place amongst the other maps.
I also fixed your exit door, it needed a tag as its operated as a switch. I used the WAD linked by @kdrnic so it has all his fixes too.
dgc_sorceress_command_control_rev02(fixed).zip
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WesbatParticipantApologies for the broken link @kdrnic, I corrected it in my post.
WesbatParticipant@kdrnic I completed the west wing of E1M9. I followed patrick’s lead and placed the yellow key in this wing to match the original’s flow.
@patrick_wd I fell short on inspiration and couldn’t think of anything crazy to add. I’m passing my crazy card on to the next person, maybe some havoc will ensue 🙂
WesbatParticipant@voxel your map is great! I love the subterranean mood at the start, and the traps got me good 🙂 I recorded a demo on ultra-violence.
@kdrnic here is a link to version 2 of my e1m5:– Added a way to get back out of the exit room
– Fixed mapped lines & doors opening the same from either side (thanks @patrick_wd)
– Added a deathmatch arena!Edit: Count me in for the west wing of E1M9 🦇
WesbatParticipantThat is a really good looking map @TigerQuoll. Nice teaser 🙂
@voxel your WAD has a few minor problems preventing it from playing in Chocolate/Crispy/Vanilla Doom.– missing bsp node data. usually your map editor of choice creates this during save, but I guess these were removed? I opened + hit “save” in Eureka to generate these.
– sectors #66 and #208 incorrectly uses *textures* PIPE2 and BROWN96 as *flats* (sadly these are not interchangeable).
– sectors #223 and #330 are missing tags (switches and their target sectors must have matching tags).
Not sure which editor you use. Eureka (F9) and Doom Builder (F4) can check for and report map problems, this helps pinpoint mistakes easily.
WesbatParticipant
WesbatParticipantSorry to hear you are having troubles @sorceress.
We can certainly fix these after you upload, or help guide you, if you want to do it yourself? Feel free to describe what you are trying to create, and I will gladly give an example map with steps; it could highlight what the trouble is.
For switches, in addition to the good tips from @patrick_wd:
– Use textures that start with “SW1…” (switch #1), the engine will swap its texture out automatically by replacing SW1 with SW2. We can’t control the swap behaviour, it’s hard-coded in the engine.
– “S” actions (Switches) only work from the *front* of the line (the little “handle” on the line faces towards the front). In Eureka the W-key flips the line front-to-back.
– Make sure to pick one-time (S1) or repeating (SR) switch actions accordingly, and that the switch and target sector have the same tag number.
Most map editors don’t explain how the Doom engine works, which only creates a barrier of entry, very silly indeed. The wiki is only useful insofar as as quick reference. The main source of truth is the “Unofficial Doom Specs”, a technical document by nature. But we don’t expect newcomers to read through it, it is a dry read. Please ask us question, we will be happy to help 🙂
WesbatParticipant@kdrnic here’s a demo for you, HMP e1m3_wb_playtest.lmp.
I like your use of heights. The exploding barrels provided a good amount of careful damage control. I found myself hunting for health halfway through, perhaps a few more health packs wouldn’t go amiss but that is hardly a flaw and I really enjoyed it!
WesbatParticipant@sorceress looking forward to play your map. And depending how this project goes, who knows … we may be keen for a Doom II edition in the future 🙂
WesbatParticipant@patrick_wd here is my second attempt demo. I still haven’t found all secrets yet, and I really enjoy playing it. The Hurt Me Plenty difficulty plays more like Ultra Violence. I did not spot anything odd, but will have a few more run throughs, taking my time and paying more attention 🙂
A general note to everyone: you have to play back demos on the same map revision it was recorded against, otherwise the demo goes out of sync. For this reason its a good idea to keep copies of each revision you push out.
WesbatParticipant@kdrnic thanks for the demo!
I am sorry about the teleport death-trap. That was very cheeky (and borderline troll). I have removed it from my map 🙂
@patrick_wd, I love your map! I died on my first attempt, I will record a demo on my next play and share it here.
WesbatParticipantHere is my E1M5, all skills implemented and equal the original game’s difficulty.
WesbatParticipantWell put @kdrnic, I cannot argue with link rot 🙂
As for custom patch/textures, one requires the PNAMES and TEXTUREx lumps, this applies to new patches and replacing existing ones equally.
This adds around 20kb of book-keeping overhead to the WAD (not counting your image of course). Without these, the engine will seek the graphic data within the IWAD and overlook our PWAD.
Did you have the DGC logo in mind? Sounds a fun idea. Need any help with this? 🙂
WesbatParticipantThis is only a suggestion, but can we use a shared document to leave testing feedback on each other’s levels?
This is also to collect the level download links in one place, to make it easier for when the time comes to package them into a single WAD.
I am hesitant to make the doc publicly editable. For now use the “Request Access” button. Apologies for this hurdle, I’m open to other means of coordination too (or not) 🙂
Edit: link removed in lieu of @kdrnic’s excellent suggestion
WesbatParticipantOh sweet lord, that level is insane. I can’t make 10 seconds without dying 🙂
I’ll hop on at the same time during the week @Martli (starting tomorrow, Monday).
WesbatParticipantA teaser from e1m5
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WesbatParticipantI put on my task list to revisit the light levels, thanks for the good feedback @kdrnic and @Pix! It sounds like the dark areas are way too dark. My apologies.
Yes this will get submitted to /idgames when the project is complete. Currently maps 5-7 are placeholders (I had created them in the past, and used them to provide some form of continuity).
The puzzle where you have to hit the switch multiple times is admittedly not a good fit in this map pack, and it’s one of my placeholders that will get replaced.
WesbatParticipant@kdrnic I totally agree with you, the first and last maps should be a team effort, that sounds like fun!
You didn’t mention E1M9, the secret level. Perhaps that can be on reserve for anyone else wanting to join the fray? Otherwise it can either be skipped or become a team level.
We can also use the number of weapons, items & monsters of the original levels as a *guideline* when placing them in our levels. This ensures play at a similar difficulty than the original game, and saves time fussing with balancing. Totally optional.
(List of Things for each level is at https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Knee-Deep_in_the_Dead – click through to the level, then scroll to the “Statistics” section)
WesbatParticipant@voxel you only need to provide the WAD file containing your level. When all levels are done, we use Slade, a game resource editor, to compile them all into one single WAD file.
WesbatParticipant+1 to @kdrnic for the outstanding Plan Of Action, I like it.
I’d briefly like to mention a few of the map editors available. Don’t take my opinions as canon, I am sure there are many others and I’d also like to hear your recommendations 🙂
I mainly use “Eureka”, a cross-platform map editor. As much as I love it, there are some caveats: not being as prolific as some of the more popular editors, searching for tutorials and help online can take some digging. Also the latest v2 release has some instability issues, I suggest sticking to v1.27b
The more popular editor is called “Doom Builder”, and was also used by Romero when he created his Sigil episode in 2019. This editor has more tutorials, videos etc online, and would likely be a better candidate for new mappers. There are a bunch of video tutorials on its website.
I am going to use Doom Builder for this project as I’ve always wanted to try it.
https://www.doombuilder.com/
https://eureka-editor.sourceforge.net/
WesbatParticipantMarch 6, 2025 at 10:01 pm in reply to: What’s your DOOM origin story, and what Myths did you grow up believing? #9508I also love reading everyone’s games memories.
I first saw Doom on a 486 laptop my dad brought home for his job, it was the shareware version, and of course I had to make a copy. I remember being scared to death of Pinkies (the large pink demons in E1M3), I thought they were the most intimidating beasts I have ever laid my eyes on. This was around 1995.
We didn’t have internet at home or school (this was during the dial-up age), and thus wasn’t aware of the thriving Doom community nor the existence of custom maps and tools to create your own. I would have loved that!
Years passed until I rediscovered the game ten years ago in 2016. The game has been a constant companion in my life since then.
WesbatParticipantAwesome, glad that worked!
WesbatParticipantThanks for the feedback @dr_st, I will fix the gun locker door – that’s a good catch!
I tested with PrBoom+ 2.5.1.4 and do not get that error. That is strange indeed, considering I did not change the SKY textures.
Are you loading any other WADS, like custom sky boxes or perhaps a mod?
SKY4 is a texture introduced in the Ultimate Doom for the fourth episode.
If your DOOM.WAD file is not the Ultimate edition it will be missing SKY4. Can you try run PrBoom with the “-complevel 2” option? This will force the engine to run in Doom 1.9 compatibility.
If you know for a fact your WAD is from Ultimate Doom, then ignore all of what I said, and I can’t think of what else might cause this, I will do some research …
WesbatParticipantSome tips to save time mapping, these are editor agnostic and nothing here is absolute. Take what you will.
The basic steps of building a level:
1) Create the foundation: rooms, locations, and the connections between them.
2) Do a few test runs, adjusting rooms as needed.
3) Populate with monsters and items.
4) Do a few more test runs, balancing as needed.
5) Add flourish, detailing the aesthetics.* It’s easy to change or reshape rooms, but it gets more time-consuming the more details you have to deal with (lines and vertices). Save time by leaving the fine details for last, allowing you to make rapid changes while the structure of your level is coming together. Also if you start detailing before the foundation has settled, it becomes too easy to lose momentum: your level feels unfinished (there is no exit?) despite all the time you spent making it look good.
Approach: Start with “broad strokes” and create rooms and locations first, optionally apply wall and floor textures where they act as visual reminders of a room’s purpose. Structures that have an effect on gameplay (stairs, lifts, keyed doors, nukage pits) all fall under broad strokes.
* Balance to make sure there is enough ammo and health for the player, and that monsters do not overpower the player. Maps are usually designed for “pistol start”: players who die and restart the level, players who record demos or do speed runs. Balancing also involves setting the easy/medium/hard flags on monsters so accommodate the difficulty level the player has chosen.
Approach: Place the initial monsters for what you consider the medium difficulty level. Play it a few times. How many times did you die before reaching the exit? Do you exit with 100% health every time and a fully stocked backpack? Add/remove monsters & items so you exit with barely enough ammo, and you picked up at least half the health bonuses.
Catering for the easy skill: When you are happy with the medium monster difficulty, select every second or third monster and remove the “easy” flag, this will give less monsters on the easy skill.
Catering for the hard skill: add one extra monster for every 3 medium monsters, setting only the “hard” flag for this new monster.
Balancing is by far the trickiest, I would be happy to assist with this, I’ve done a lot of it 🙂
WesbatParticipantSign me up 🙂
I love me a good tech base.
I agree about a smaller map set. What time-frame did everyone have in mind? In time for the episode release?
It can still be a success even if it’s a work in progress when the episode airs, plus the added stress of a deadline is not always fun.
Of course you don’t want to get stuck in a never-ending cycle either. I will post some tips later to help inform us on avoiding this 🙂
WesbatParticipantAh very nice! I am able to connect to it via the Launcher.
WesbatParticipantThat is great to hear @patrick_wd, thank you 🙂
> “like the plasma rifle on map 3”
Yup, it’s a very obscure secret. I have “inspiration block” at the moment. Perhaps it should simply auto open as you leave the room?
> “softlocked by falling into the middle part of map 8 after raising the bridges”
You didn’t miss anything, this is indeed a soft lock. I need to add a way to escape from here, thanks for reporting.
There is another lock in map 6, in the room beyond the red key door: standing atop a platform as it raises to the ceiling will crush you, and if you survive you will be stuck in place. I want to revisit this puzzle and try fix it.
WesbatParticipantAh thanks @patrick_wd and @dr_st!
I mistakenly placed two graphic patches in the wrong order, this has been fixed and the OP attachment updated. I will include Boom in my future testing 🙂
WesbatParticipantI’d love to have my first game of multiplayer Doom, if this happens, please count me in 🙂
Rather than modern source ports that diverge from the original, how does everyone feel about sticking to ports that give the closest feel of classic Doom multiplayer?
I second Odamex, it has the benefit that there are already dedicated servers running. It comes with a Launcher app to browser online servers and shows your ping time to each.
Chocolate Doom also comes to mind – although that has a 4 player limit (as did classic Doom).
WesbatParticipantI agree @dr_st, I enjoy the pixelated fun in DOSBox too!
FYI I also use the novert TSR which gives you better mouse control.
WesbatParticipantThis wasn’t my first time playing BASS, I’ll always be a fan of this game. It does have some flaws.
The most obvious is the varying quality of voice acting – the sound levels are all over the place, and start grating your ears after many hours.
The most frustrating is hunting for that one pixel in the subway puzzle, it is cruel and unforgiving.
What I love:
– the story
– the artwork
– the puzzles (most of them)
– the characters, and interacting with them
– LINC space, how it looks and your inventory inside it
– the ending
WesbatParticipantThanks for sharing firefyte! I am definitely getting this for my play list.
WesbatParticipantAn alternative for modern systems, while keeping true to vanilla rendering, is Crispy Heretic (via the Crispy Doom project).
– Enhanced 640×400 display resolution.
– Widescreen rendering.
– Uncapped frame rate.
– Removal of static limits.
– Mouselook.
– Increased number of sound channels.
– Brightmaps.
– … and others!(scroll to “Assets”)
https://github.com/fabiangreffrath/crispy-doom/releases/tag/crispy-doom-7.0
WesbatParticipantMy first reaction is to say “Yes”.
But after stepping back and taking a moment, I realized my knee-jerk reaction is foolish.
Although it would be great to keep the pair together in one month, I feel the scope of them combined would mean neither will get the time they deserve.
Some factoids:
1) Hexen was developed as “Heretic II”, this is evidenced in the source code where each file header has the line “Heretic 2 : Raven Software, Corp.”
2) In Heretic we have the hero taking on the first of the Serpent Riders, whereas in Hexen the second rider is dealt with – albeit in another dimension, with a different hero.
3) The Heretic engine was based off DooM while adding flying, looking up-down, inventory, translucency and varied monster attack types and drops.
4) Hexen is based off Heretic, while adding character classes, falling damage, fog and a hub-based level design.
5) Hexen introduced the ACS scripting language.
6) The player can move back-and-forth between levels and items/monsters are persisted. Something that Heretic and DooM did not support.
WesbatParticipantI have been racing with all of them but leaning towards the Hefelump. I like how each has their own sound and win animation.
WesbatParticipantThat’s a great review, thanks @watchful!
It’s fun that they mention the novelty of the bodies that remain on the floor, and the mention of the map and sprite editors is a nice glimpse into the popularity of those from the start.
WesbatParticipantHere is a shareware review I found, this one is from PC Review issue 12 (October 1992).
This write-up is short and mostly positive, but it doesn’t strike me as that well written.
It really is a shame that there isn’t a full game review to peruse.
https://archive.org/details/pc-review-12/page/109/mode/1up
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WesbatParticipantA joystick sounds like an interesting idea @Martli. Do let us know how that goes.
I play with the default controls and mouse – arrow keys to move forward/backward and mouse to turn and strafe (hold the RMB). I do not used the RUN key, but think I might have to for the harder levels later.
The game manual actually recommends playing with the mouse (Hints and Strategies section).
WesbatParticipantHi @tleilax. It makes me happy to see others interested in DOS development too! I am a DOS dev newbie, but aspire to create a real game one day.
Abrash’s Big Black Book is fantastic if you want to get into the nuts-and-bolts of the VGA machinery, but it reads very much like a technical manual, with a focus on assembly language. I found it a hard entry point into DOS programming. It’s on my reading list for the future, but until then I have to accumulate more experience.
I have a copy of Jonathan S. Harbour’s “Game Programming All in One 2nd Edition”. The writing is easy to read, and follows a tutorial style of building a demo game, spanning the chapters. I should note that the book is tied to the Allegro DOS game library. Available Amazon.
David Brackeen’s C VGA tutorial really helped get me started. It covers the basics in C – Entering video mode, drawing primitives and bitmaps, palette manipulation and double buffering.
Then if you want to get into a little more advanced techniques, I can recommend Lode Vandevenne graphics tutorials – flood fills, plasmas, fires, raycasting, image filtering and procedural texture generation.
I can also recommend Root42’s Let’s Code video tutorials. I find these a pleasure to watch.
http://www.brackeen.com/vga/index.html
https://lodev.org/cgtutor/
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLGJnX2KGgaw2L7Uv5NThlL48G9y4rJx1X
WesbatParticipantLander now has a home on Codeberg
WesbatParticipantI might revise my previous statement 😉
Games do take a long time to complete, don’t they? I’m still on my first game. I can only afford one or two hour sittings, but still it’s a long game.
I think there’s an enemy ship hiding somewhere, there are no enemy cities left in the 87% of the map I’ve explored – save for the 13% of the map yet unexplored.
Edit: I found the last enemy city, mission successful!
I actually don’t have the will to finish this game today. I’ve run out of time and will continue next week 🙂
Great game, but it’s a major time sink. No doubt about it.
WesbatParticipantI am having a good go at the 1987 version, Empire: Wargame of the Century.
This is my kind of game. I’m not particularly great at it, but it infects me with brain worms. I keep thinking about my strategy even while not playing.
I find keyboard-only play is the easiest for this version. The use of the SHIFT key to move and scroll in larger increments is a nice quality-of-life touch. The small things make a difference, you know? Like the WAIT and SKIP TURN commands, and being able to issue orders to a group of units.
I have never PBEM before and have always been curious about this mode of play. This game would be the one, if I ever tried play by email. Yes I’m aware a game with dozens of exchanges could take months. That prospect intimidates me… yet I’m still curious.
Aside: Relocating my home later this month so my playtime will be reduced. I will keep on playing this game into the year though, the addiction is taking hold.
WesbatParticipantI reached Level 7, Wishvale. At that point I started to feel the repetition set in, but play was still engaging enough. Not sure for how much longer, however.
I should probably mention that I wasn’t able to play with the rotating 3d view, I used the fixed top-down setting.
Regrettably, I didn’t reach the secret disk defragment level 😁
WesbatParticipantI know I am late to the party, but welcome!
WesbatParticipantDitto for playing the original. I am a big fan of Wolf3D and DooM, and play them in their original forms regularly.
I would like to echo what @TigerQuoll said – It’s great to have actively development fan ports and mods, those are all good things!
WesbatParticipantFirst time playing and I am enjoying it, mostly.
The limit of monsters you can pick up at once bugs me a little, it makes for tricky micro-management.
Currently on map 7 (Wishvale), just cannot get past those two lightning traps. They utterly decimate my imps. Guess I can just send in imps until the traps are exhausted.
For advancement I learned these useful tips – just my observations, don’t assume I know what I’m talking about 😉
– Don’t bother with beetles or flies. Drop them on the portal to remove them from play, saving resources for better fighting creatures.
– For a “crush your opponent” strategy: a large lair and training areas to start. Once a creature is level 4 build a small library and put it on research. Don’t bother with workshops.
– Monsters fight best when rested. When most are level 4 I move them to the Lair for a bit. Some will go back to train or research, I sell these areas to force them to rest.
– The Call to Arms spell is most useful for coordinating large groups. It costs nothing when cast on your own tiles. Cast it in the Lair to grab their attention, then cast it further away toward your battle-ground.
WesbatParticipantJust popping in to say I really enjoyed the Hadrosaurus interview. I am saving the podcast episode until I played the game this weekend – I’d like to experience it spoiler free!
WesbatParticipantOctober 15, 2023 at 12:06 am in reply to: Which DOS games do you have on your Topsters 25 list? #7946What fun is this?
Nice Top 25 @jefklak! I see your console versions, makes sense they superseded the DOS versions – some games are just better with a game controller.
I see we have quite a few in common @TigerQuoll 🙂
I never gravitated toward the flight sims @Pix, but I totally understand the appeal of them! Now the adventure games I get completely.
My top 25 just so happens to contain mostly DOS games. These are in no particular order.
If there was one game I would be stranded with for the rest of time, it would have to be DooM – the original 1993 and it’s sequel the following year.
1. Doom
2. Warcraft II: Tides of Darkness
3. The Secret of Monkey Island
4. Stunts
5. Prince of Persia
6. Heretic
7. Dune II: The Building of a Dynasty
8. The Legend of Kyrandia
9. Grim Fandango
10. Lost Pig (And Place Under Ground)
11. Wolfenstein 3D
12. Dune
13. Bio Menace
14. Duke Nukem I
15. Carmageddon
16. King ‘s Quest I: Quest for the Crown
17. Simon the Sorcerer
18. Beneath a Steel Sky
19. Diablo I
20. Quake I
21. Police Quest I: In Pursuit of the Death Angel
22. Sid Meier’s Civilization I
23. Monster Bash
24. Where in the World is Carmen Sandiego?Attachments:
WesbatParticipantOoh yay! I am excited for Lemmings 😁
WesbatParticipantThose are great tips, thanks Mike.
I save a new slot at the start of each chapter, and use f9/f10 to quick save/load in between action. Quick save uses slot 0, which is not listed in the menu, so it won’t overwrite your last slot-save.
WesbatParticipantThanks for those scans @Pix!
I haven’t played ROTH before but am looking forward to it! I bought a copy from GOG.com and read other magazine reviews, which can be found on the wiki[1].
Also noteworthy is an unofficial fan site[2] I came across. It provides maps, a walkthrough and other bits of interest. I tip my hat to it’s owners who have kept it online since 2002!
[1]: https://tales-from-the-tower.fandom.com/wiki/Magazine_Scans
[2]: https://realmsofthehaunting.com (spoiler warning)
WesbatParticipantThanks Spoonboy!
Funny you should say that, episode #79 inspired me to try Alien Legacy. Had a blast with that game!